CL 2013 R18 - TTT (Brittas) 8/8/13

Nick Watson
Brian McNally
Oisin Boland
Cormac Bracken

Paul Kane
John Twomey
Paul Brosnan
Donnacha McCormack

Looking for another team member - we currenlty have:

Brian McNally
Oisin Boland
Cormac Bracken

Any takers?

Im looking for a team if your interested?

Updated Team members:

Edward O Mahoney
Brian McNally
Oisin Boland
Cormac Bracken

Short notice ... I can marshal tonight if anyone wants to race? Need next week the 15th covered in return (Cant get time off work)

Regards
Bernard

There are some very impressive times there, even more so at the lower end than at the top. The Under14/Under16 guys and girls ended up dead last with a time that would have beaten half a dozen senior teams in almost any other year.

The InterClub League is doing their TTT next week, so it will be very interesting to see how their times compare.

Savage event, great craic altogether. Apologies to Diarmuid, Ed and Fionn - was straight out of work and underfed and under-prepped and wasn't at the races at all, though I probably went too hard in my stints at the front trying to cover it, and was toast by halfway, sorry lads! While I didn't earn those points, I'll gladly accept them :)

Seriously impressive times, particularly the top 2 - gotta say, it's great motivation to see such competitive times out of fellow club members, definitely gives the impetus to put the effort in to up the game.

Ah, the excuses have started...excellent, I can put mine in now:

Thanks to Ivan, Julian and of course Aidan for being part of the team. Apologies to them for my null performance. It was pretty much an Aidan-Julian team, all I did was slow them down, a LOT (5:10 by my reckoning).

Still, it was fun and a good workout, hopefully next year I will be able to contribute to the workload.

Its a bit off only the top 3 teams getting points in the TTT - obviously I would say that after coming fourth! That aside there is really nothing to encourage lower graded riders from putting together a team as they haven't a chance of getting a result especially when people are told to enter a team with others of a similar abilities. So basically its just the scratch riders and some semi scratch riders dividing up the points. I knew what team was going to win it even before the event started, did anyone not? Shouldn't there should be some form of handicapping for the lower ranked riders? That might result in more than 9 teams showing up next year (which wasn't that bad a turnout actually).

I have to agree that points should be awarded to all of the top 6 teams.

Was it stated somewhere beforehand that points would only be awarded to the top 3 teams?

If it's going to be a points bonanza though of six teams = 24 placings, then won't you have the same problem in that all of the Scratch and Semi-Scratch riders will make an effort to appear for the TTT because they know they can probably place?

Handicapping sounds logical, but at the end of the day it's a TT, it's a competition to see who can do the best time. Losing out on a place because another team have a five minute handicap seems ridiculous. It's also complicated. How do you handicap a team made up of two SS & two SLs?

I agree that maybe a discussion needs to be had around it. Maybe award points for the best 6 teams, but split into two fields.

So the best 3 teams from the S/SS grouping get points and the best 3 teams from SL/L grouping.

Since the team's time is determined by the first 3 across the line, then you can use a majority to determine which group they belong in:

e.g. if a team is made up of 2 x SS + 2 x SL and first across the line are the two SS & the SL, then that team is in the first grouping. On the other hand, if one of the SS guys is dropped and the other 3 cross the line, then they fall into the second grouping.

Since the team's time is dependent on the 3rd rider's time, then it's basically impossible to sandbag it; at the end of the day you will still need two very strong SL riders to win the SL/L grouping, one SS rider alone can't fiddle the system to win more points.

I would argue that it's more biased against the weaker teams to get no points at all then to get less points! Very surprised to hear only 3 got points.
A bit of generosity doesn't hurt, and it wouldn't impact on the final standings at the business end at all.

My €0.02:
I'm not in the running for prizes this year and thanks to the organizers I got to ride the TTT due to a surplus of marshals. I enjoyed the race and wasn't that put out by not getting any points.

However I have to agree that the TTT needs a bit of a review. It would be a bit difficult to organise teams in advance due to people not turning up, extra effort for the committee etc... so I would suggest that the fairest method would be to pick teams on the night and aim to have one rider from each group on the team, one from L,SL,SS,S. Could be first from each group signed on go out together etc...

Now that's not going to happen that all teams will be balanced but that could be the goal. It would even out the competition a bit and encourage riders from L and SL to race.

I have a suggestion (not had first coffee yet, so it might not be that sensible!)

This will involve starting teams at 3 minute intervals. Riders are handicapped based on category:
S = 0 sec, SS = 10 sec, SL = 20 sec, L =30 sec. The handicaps will be added before the start. Each team gets in position at their designated start time, but held back until the handicap expires. Then they continue as normal.

e.g., Team X is allocated a start time of 7.03 and has a rider from each category, the clock starts for them at 7.03, but don't set off until 7.04.

Worst possible handicap is 2 minutes, which gives time for next team to get ready, etc.

Be gentle with me...going for that coffee now!

Paul.

Obviously the generator was starting to splutter when whatever bright light came up with the idea of awarding the 3 top teams points of 17, 15 and 13 respectively instead of 11, 9 and 7 points, that way there wouldn't be a difference of 8 points between the 3rd and 4th placed teams which makes a joke of any pretence of fairness. When the 25 mile tt was run there was only one limit rider who rightly was awarded 17 points for his effort as opposed to only 5 points because no one else from his category had bothered to show up which has basically what has happened in the current awarding of TTT points. Admittedly it wont make much difference to me at the end of the league but probably would to others.

I suppose I could have done something constructive at the start of the year and joined the league committee, however I'm far happier being the hurler on the ditch/moaner on the sidelines and criticising others decisions. However just this once I have decided to try and help by cutting through the Gordian Knot of awarding TTT points and employ my considerable dwarf sized intellect to solve the problem.

After an unbelieveably restless night I had mu Eureka moment just as dawn was breaking over the Dublin mountains and it is as follows: Each Limit rider would get a 90 second advantage over a Scratch rider, 60 second advantage over a Semi Scratch rider and 30 seconds over a Semi Limit rider. That way a Limit team would get a 6 minute advantage over a Scratch team, 4 mins over a Semi Scratch team and 2 mins over a Semi Limit team. A Semi Limit team would meanwhile get a 2 minute advantage over a Semi Scratch team but a 4 minute advantge over a Scratch team. That way teams will generally be riding with others of a similar ability as opposed to having teams drawn from a hat composed of all four categories which could prove very frustrating for a scratch rider while really exhausting for a limit rider who would soon be dropped.

However if there are mixed teams, for example a team of one semi scratch rider, 2 semi limit riders and one limit rider then the advantage they would have over a 4 man limit team would be 2 minutes: (one SS rider 60 secs) + (two SL riders 60 secs) + (no time penalty for limit rider). That same mixed team would have a 4 minute advantage over a 4 man Scratch team and a 2 minute advantage over a 4 man Semi Scratch team but no advantage over a 4 man Semi Limit team. Hope that was easy enough to follow. Looking at this years TTT results I don't think it would radically change the results but it would make it alot more competitive for everyone involved.